🌍 A Journey Through 170 Countries: Exclusive Interview With Darlene Darata
Itchy Feet Traveler Spotlight
Hey friends, welcome back to Itchy Feet.
I’m happy you’re here.
This week’s post is special. I’m sharing my interview with Darlene Darata, a travel expert who’s visited 170 countries.
She shared remarkable travel wisdom, so this post is longer than my regular content (12-minute estimated reading time).
I hope you enjoy it!
A few weeks ago, my friend Wagner (another travel enthusiast) introduced me to Darlene.
He and I were chatting over a beer on a warm afternoon in Sausalito, California.
Soon, she approached our table.
We had an arranged meeting because the woman who joined us had many travel stories to share.
With a bright smile, Darlene greeted me for the first time.
The three of us all loved to travel. But Darlene was unique.
She’s been to a whopping 170 countries. She was the equivalent of a rock star for travel lovers like me.
I was happy to meet her but my heart was pounding in anxiousness. I felt like I was with the Beyonce or Taylor Swift of getting passport stamps.
She kindly agreed to let me interview her about her experiences and share travel knowledge.
Before getting started, she broke the ice:
“I’ve been preoccupied trying to get to Libya.”
She said this with a contagious laugh as if knowing it wasn’t a typical conversation topic.
For Darlene, an elite traveler, it was a regular thing to say. This fact left me even more eager to start asking questions.
Libya! So what does that entail?
It’s not easy. Many people say it’s hard to get there. They make things difficult for travelers. You have to go directly to the Libyan government.
It’s easier now. They initiated an E-visa. You need an invitation.
Within two minutes I learned how to get to Libya. I knew this was going to be a fun talk.
What sparked your desire to travel?
I’ve been traveling since 1972, so a long time.
I always wanted to travel, since grammar school. It's always been a desire. It’s always been with me.
Vietnam and Nixon were happening when I graduated college. I wanted to get out of the country.
I left for two years not thinking I’d ever come back.
A couple of friends and I went to Europe right after college. I told my mom I'd return in a few months, but knew I wasn't coming back.
A girlfriend and I went to North Africa, Morocco, hitchhiked to Tunisia, then went to Sicily.
And then she went home.
In my mind, I was always headed to India because I wanted to go there.
It was part of the hippie trail at the time.
(I didn’t know about the hippie trail, so we talked more about it.)
Later, another friend met me in Venice and we hitchhiked through Turkey.
Then we went to Iran, which was beautiful.
The Shah was in power, and it was an amazing place. Very peaceful, very affluent, very beautiful. We hitchhiked through Iran, then Afghanistan, and then got stuck in Pakistan.
Pakistan was very intense back then (1972).
There were no women on the street. It was a horrible place.
In Afghanistan, the women were all covered up.
But when I crossed the border into India (you could cross by land at the time), it was a riot of color.
For example, I went to Amritsar, which is Sikh. I saw men and women in turquoise, orange, and yellow turbans and fabrics. It blew my mind.
I started studying Buddhism in Nepal. That's how I started this journey of travel.
Then I’d go back and forth between India and Nepal.
You could only stay in India for six months.
I’d go to Nepal and stay for a few weeks. There were no computers back then, so I’d wash my passport and get a new one from the embassy.
What was it like being a female traveling to these places?
Pakistan was terrible. I was hit with sticks. Back then, they didn’t want women out. I don’t know what Pakistan is like now.
Afghanistan was very tribal back then. This was before the Russians, before the US, before anybody. It was pretty simple. You saw a lot of opium.
How were you able to navigate the local languages?
Iran had a strong education back then with the Shah, so English was everywhere.
Afghanistan was more challenging, but I didn't spend much time there.
Many people spoke English in Pakistan because it was part of India at one point. The British were in India.
Since then, what has been the main goal of your trips?
It depended on how much time I had.
I didn't have a career in the 1970s, so I spent some time in Bali, Indonesia, Java, Sumatra, and Thailand, for six months.
I could do that because I was a freelance tour guide in San Francisco. I saved money that way. I worked for many conventions, and the whole travel industry for a long time. I was a tour guide, coordinator, and trip director.
I usually have a purpose in mind, like fabric or history. We’re visiting some Mayan ruins I want to see in Guatemala in a few weeks.
Did you always want to see every country?
I started thinking that way more recently.
Because I began adding up the places I went and thought:
Why don't I just go everywhere?
I’ve given that up in the last few years. When you get older, you think – Okay, how many more vertical years do I still have?
Do you have a list of places you still want to visit?
Oh yes. I want to go to Mali, where the Dogon people are. Their fabrics are amazing and their mud buildings are interesting.
I've always wanted to visit Timbuktu. I'd also like to explore North Sudan, which is suffering terribly at the moment.
I'm going to Yemen next year. I can't go to all the places I want there because it isn’t safe.
Do you have contacts in these places?
A lot of times I’ll go on my own. The internet helps you figure it out.
I've started going with smaller groups for continents like Africa and the Middle East. They cater to eight to ten people, the size that would fit in a minivan.
These are more people my age that are well-traveled, and don't mind the lack of first-world amenities.
So are there groups that do these kinds of trips to off-the-beaten-track locations?
With technology, off-the-beaten-track doesn't exist anymore.
There are a lot of groups. One is called Spiekermann Travel, and they're in Michigan. ElderTreks and Adventures Abroad are in Canada. There's Next Adventure in Berkeley. There’s Native Eye from the UK. For example, last year I went to Iraq with GeoEx.
I took a solo trip to Saudi Arabia and hired a local guide. I did the same in Oman.
So is hiring a guide the best move if going solo to these places?
It's better for me because having a contact there is nice. I do a lot of research. I know what I want to see.
It's easier to visit what you want to see, go where you want, and meet people who live there if you have a local contact.
How can you trust the person you're in contact with?
It's hard sometimes. I've never (knock on wood) had a bad experience.
Sometimes I’ll call friends or the companies I told you about to ask for the name of a local contact who can help me.
How do you do your research?
My parents subscribed to National Geographic magazine when I was growing up.
This was another contributing factor to wanting to travel.
In the 1950s and 1960s, I saw pictures of the Ubangis of Ethiopia, which are the Mursi. These are the people with plates in their mouths.
After seeing those pictures in grammar school, I thought – I've got to see those people.
And I did, finally. They’re amazing. Ethiopia is incredible.
Which cultures have stood out to you the most?
Some are more tribal than others. And it depends on the time of year because so many cultures have been diluted by track tourists and the Internet.
Certain cultures in the seventies were so pure and did their things for themselves.
And then going back to India or Indonesia, for example, you could see how the culture's changed to accommodate tourism.
I don't blame them. They need to make money, and it's a huge boon for the country.
Globalization has changed culture so much.
Many people still hold on to their traditions, like in Ethiopia. There are so many different tribes there. New Guinea is another one. And they're so different.
Amazingly, these traditions are still here.
Is it hard being in the United States?
Yes, in all honesty. If I weren't married, I wouldn't live in the US. My husband Joe knows this. He’s a fabulous husband.
Does he travel with you?
Sometimes, but he hasn’t much lately. Although, we did recently spend a month in Japan together.
But he doesn't like doing the same things. Not anymore. He just turned 80.
He still looks good, though. He reads a lot and has many interests.
He's like – I don't know if I have the energy for what you do (laughing).
Does he support your desire to go on trips?
He's okay with that. We didn't marry until later when we were 50 and 55. He knew what I was like, and I knew what he was like.
How do you make traveling work for you two?
Japan was a good example. I like to have a focus on a trip. In Japan, indigo, indigo dying, and fabric were the emphasis.
He wasn’t interested in any of that.
I did a lot by myself, and he was fine.
He could entertain himself, take a walk, or read.
Namibia is another example. It's a huge country. He doesn't like tour groups, so we hired a guide and a driver.
There are so many good ways to travel. There are so many resources.
Do you think access to many resources and tools made travel worse?
That's hard to say. Everything's so different now. For example, back when I started, there weren’t credit cards for women unless you got a co-sign from your husband. I had to travel without credit cards.
I only used AMEX traveler checks.
There weren’t phones. There wasn’t communication. Maybe there would be a tour book at some hotel.
It was hard. But when you're younger, it's easier. I don’t think I would do that now.
So would you write postcards back home?
I wrote letters and my mother kept them all. They're in a box and I have not looked at them ever.
But I have kept a journal for every single trip I've done. I have trunks of journals but haven’t read them.
I’m sure you’d have plenty of material for a book! Have you ever
written one?
No, the most interesting traveling happened in the seventies when it was hard. The eighties were a little harder, but not anything like that then.
Do you experience culture shock at all anymore?
Coming home I do. I never feel it when I go because I feel like I belong everywhere, away from here.
It's always easier to go somewhere. I often think – I feel good here, even though it's different.
(Darlene, Wagner, and I all agreed about this)
However, you see what happens in the world and how people struggle. It's hard sometimes.
What’s the best travel advice you've gotten from somebody else?
I've always just done it (traveled). Most people don't do what I do.
What is the most common question people ask you?
Why are you going there? (laughing)
Like with Iraq. It’s such a fascinating place.
The Babylonians, the Sumerians, and writing started there. It goes on and on and on.
Do you have any travel hacks to make seeing new places easier?
I have a cabinette that Joe and I put together. It has a portable fan that we have to bring, a neck cooler, mosquito repellent, and all the things that we need.
It’s all there in one place, so we don't have to search for it.
I mostly do a carry-on when I travel. If I go to a country with fabulous fabrics, I have to buy another suitcase and check it.
I always bring a small down pillow, made from a lightweight fabric.
What else is on your essential packing list?
My portable fan if I have electricity. I can plug it into a USB or with batteries. Also, I pack an extra battery for my iPad.
I have a Scott Vest with inside pockets. It’s great for anywhere like when you shop at a bazaar.
So, you don’t feel fear to go anywhere?
No. I know there are random acts of violence, or war in certain places. I think it’s worse here (in the US) because of guns. There aren’t so many guns in other countries.
What advice do you have for people who (regardless of age) want to travel?
If you want to do something, you can do it. You can figure it out. And there are so many resources now. Having a desire is the main thing. If you have this, then you’ll figure it out.
If you want to do it, just do it.
If you want to save up, don’t go to Starbucks every day. It's a priority thing.
You can't do it without focus unless you’re a billionaire.
People get lazy and want to save up for a five-star hotel in Paris once a year.
The conversation could've lasted even longer, but I wanted to respect Darlene’s time. I thanked her. We stood up and said our goodbyes. She needed time to figure out how to get to Libya, her 171st country.
Darlene: Thank you so much for your time and wishing you the best on your future adventures. This was a fun conversation.
Wagner: A shout-out to you, my friend. Thanks for making the interview happen.
That’s it for this week, everyone. See you soon.
Thanks for reading and supporting Itchy Feet. It means a lot!
-Daniel
P.S. More Traveler Spotlight interviews are in the works! Do you want to be featured? Send me a message!
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So many learnings in this interview! It is the kind of reading you finish and immediately become another person. I share all the thoughts of belonging anywhere, but I still, for money and fear, don't go to 'off list' places like Iraq, but, indeed, it will be amazing do that in this life.
As she is always on the road we had to wait a few months to "grab" her and finally interview her. Thank you, Dan, for your great questions and it was an absolute pleasure to sit down with both of you. Keep up the great work, my friend!!